XP and 7 but not virutal

Moderator: continuum

XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:06 am

So I have a working install of XP 32-bit on a SATA HDD.
I also have a working install of Win7 Pro 64-bit on a SATA SSD
I would like to boot either XP or 7 (if I have to do it one but not the other that's fine) and run the other OS in VMware, which I heard is possible.
I called tech support at VMware to ask and they said they don't support but it is possible and eventually led me here (actually led me to their forums which got me here).
The tech support said that they don't support it because it can cause issues with the MBR of the drive I try to boot into VMWorkstation.

I''d have to double check my BIOS but I think I have the SATA in IDE mode which from what I've found on here and the FAQ is what I should use.

So can this be done and what issues do I need to be worried about?

Also will I be able to pass file between the 2?
I know that from working with VPC that I could copy a file to and from the guest and host systems and from what I little know VMware can do the same between the virtual guest and it's host.
Wolf68k
 
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby continuum » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:23 pm

yep - this is possible - with both XP and Win7 - I hope you have a Volume license for both - otherwise you will run into activation-problems.

Doijng this with Windows 7 is easier then with XP - I just explained it here

http://communities.vmware.com/message/1679906#1679906
http://communities.vmware.com/thread/28 ... 0&tstart=0

that should get you started - if you have problems show a screenshot of diskmanagement

Ulli
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:06 pm

Sorry if this sounds stupid but I know little of VMware, which I said before.
I did read the topic you linked and I'm bit more confused now.
In that topic they talk about loading Windows 7 as RAW in VMW. RAW meaning they are loading the physical drive that has 7 installed on it is what I'm guessing.
Just so I know the basic steps I'll have do to, so pardon the newbie here.
I boot like normal in 7 and install VMW there. Then when I go to set up a machine in VMW I tell it to load the XP drive as RAW? Sounds right.
Or do I need to install VMW on both systems for some reason?

Ok it's after that I'm confused by the BSoD 7B thing.
This assumes that VMware is the target and you configure the VM with VirtualHardware type 7.
It only applies if the virtual disk is configured like this
scsi0.virtualDev = "lsisas1068"
scsi0:0.fileName = "imported.vmdk"

What is VirtualHardware type 7?
Is there a way to not use type 7 to possibly avoid this problem? As long as the XP will be able to get online and other wise run like normal.
Wolf68k
 
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby continuum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:01 am

Hi
if you are new to this I best explain in more details.

I would suggest you show me a screenshot of diskmanagement so that I can understand any special conditions in your case.
Do you have Volume-licenses for your Windows XP and Win7 ?

Ulli
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:11 am

I don't have VMware at all yet.
I had the player once years ago and I got a really old copy from a friend years before that
I'm just trying to see if this possible.

I have 2 drives on the same PC; HDD=XP and SDD=7. At the moment in time I have XP running.
I can switch to 7 and back again when I boot my system and press F12 and select the boot drive, this is a feature of my motherboard.
What I was wanting to do is be able to run XP or 7, if I can do this in XP then fine but if I have to do this in 7 that's ok too.
I've been running XP for a long time and have a bunch of things on there running doing things and set up a set way that I like but I want to move to 7 and the biggest issue is the long time it takes to get everything set up. So I was hoping I can XP (or 7) and have the other in VMware doing something while XP is still doing it's thing.
So for example: I've booted into 7 but have VMW running my XP and XP has all of things running like I normally do while in 7 I'm installing those programs and get those configured and running the same way. OR Booted into XP and while it's doing it's normal things, run VMW with 7 and then install and configure the programs then once that's done to the way I like for the most part at least I can switch to 7 as the boot and all of those same programs that I normally have running in the background on XP (like an DLNA server for my TV) are now on 7 and set up the same way then I don't need to worry about XP unless I really need it.

Now I completely understand if I can't install/update drivers for whatever reason. That I would rather do while having booted into 7 anyway just to be on the safe side.

Like I said I called VMware tech support and some one there said they don't support being able to load an OS from another drive and also said something about that VMW could mess up the bootloader/MBR.

So I'm trying to figure out if all of this is possible and what issues I might run into later.

If all I need is a single copy of Workstation then great, but if I have to have it installed on 7 and XP then I'm stuck.


Kind of off topic but maybe you can answer it.
I have dual monitors and some programs are set to run in the second, is there some way to make VMW to at least pretend that there are 2 (or more) monitors?
I know in the past because of this, if for some reason I had to disconnect the 2nd monitor I had a hell of a time trying to get those programs back to the main monitor. Some went peacefully and others never didn't because they don't have a Move option in the taskbar.
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby continuum » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:52 pm

Hi

please create that screenshot I asked for - we need to know how your disks are setup now.

also the license question should be out of the way before we go into details.

If you have no Volume license you have to deal with additional problems.

Basically you can do either of this 3 options:

    - use XP as the VMware host and run Windows 7 as a VM
    - use Windows 7 as the VMware host and run XP as a VM
    - install Workstation or VMplayer on both XP and Windows 7 so that you can run the "other" option as a VM.

and all of those same programs that I normally have running in the background on XP (like an DLNA server for my TV)


You should know that PCI-cards installed on the physical system are not available inside the same systems when they run as a VM.

Anyway - what you have in mind basically can be done without buying Workstation twice.

But the whole setup has some caveats that you really should know how to handle to prevent any disk corruption:

When you use a disk or partition of your host for a VM you MUST unmount it beforwe starting the VM.
If you forget this once - your data may be dead !!!!

So it is really necessxary to know your disklayout - not all constellations can be used safely
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 am

So I can use VMplayer to do the same thing? VMPlayer is free isn't it?

As for the NIC, does VM use a virtual NIC to connect the OS instead of it to the host's NIC?

I'll get the screen shot later, but I don't really see why. I've already explained that each OS is installed to separate drives, so I would think that since the drive with the OS on it that I want to use in VM should be easily unmounted.
Speaking of which, do I need to unmount it first or will VM doing that for me?
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:34 pm

Here is the screen shot you wanted.

Completely off topic
I'm a little confused by one thing. The XP drive is on the mobo in SATA0, the 7 drive is on SATA1 and the 1TB drive is on SATA4. The BIOS even list the XP drive first during POST. I do think, I'd have to double check that, in the drive select screen when I press F12 that the 7 drive is listed first though.

/edit
Ok fixed the boot order quirk. Also noticed that in the BIOS they are listed a:
IDE 0 Master = XP drive
IDE 0 Slave = blank
IDE 1 Master = 7 drive
IDE 1 Slave = blank
IDE 2 Master = 1TB
Attachments
untitled.JPG
Wolf68k
 
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby continuum » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:33 pm

Speaking of which, do I need to unmount it first or will VM doing that for me?


when you use win7 as the host and run XP as the guest you are forced to unmount - otherwise it will not work at all.
with XP as the host you do not need to unmount to start the VM - and exactly this is the reason why doing this with XP hosts is so dangerous.

If you forget to unmount the Win7 drive first even only once your Win7 may die after 5 minutes and it will be dead after hours or days.

On a disk layout like yours running Windows 7 as the host and XP as the VM is quite safe as Win7 makes sure the XP drive is unmounted before you start the VM.
Using XP as host and Win7 as a VM is not safe at all - but it is possible and actually easier to setup.

Did you already read about setting up two hardware profiles in XP ?

As for the NIC, does VM use a virtual NIC to connect the OS instead of it to the host's NIC?


yes - a VM uses completely different virtual hardware then your host - thats why you will have to activate your XP or Win7 again.
I hope you have a volume license - as this is the only way to avoid activation problems.

You are aware that if you now have a fancy 3d video card on your host - allowing to play 3d games and so on - this will not be available inside the VM.
In the VM you have a very basic video card that does not even have its own GPU processor.
Same applies to soundcards and every other fancy hardware you might have.


You have a large TB size harddisk for data - I would highly recommend to first test regular VMs installed into virtual disks.
This VMs will behave exactly as your real setuups would do if you run them as a VM
continuum
 
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby Wolf68k » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:13 am

Oh when you said Volume license I thought you meant for VM not for the OS. The XP license won't be an issue, there's no activation for what I have.
Ok so run 7 as the host and let VM run XP which will automatically unmount the XP drive?? (more or less rhetorical, just for me to know I got it right and we're on the same page).

Did you already read about setting up two hardware profiles in XP ?

You mean within XP itself?
As in Control Panel->System->Hardware->Hardware Profiles
That Hardware Profile? I guess not because I know about what you're talking about.

I said before I'm not worried about playing games within VM. I just want to be able to run both OSes so I can keep XP doing it's thing while I get 7 ready to take over.


I'm surprised someone just hasn't written a tutorial that covers all this stuff with details and pictures where needed and so on.

Will VMPlayer do what I need to do? You mentioned it before.
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Re: XP and 7 but not virutal

Postby continuum » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:08 pm

Hi

VMware itself has instructions on how to set this up - I look for the link

problem is they all were written in the pre-Vista time and so with Win7 hosts there are some additional steps to take care of.
But basically the VMware guide on running XP as a VM still applies

I try to find it now

Ulli
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